Talk:Taunt
Animal companions and familiars Is it worth noting the animal companions and familars that develop Taunt skill? Like the pixie and the raven? --Fitz10019 19 April 2006 *Only if the AI you are using is smart enough to use it. Or if you control the familiar and use taunt which generally is not advisable unless you got other allies attacking that target GhostNWN 14:35, 19 April 2006 (PDT) Touch attack or ranged? Is Taunt a touch attack, or ranged? if ranged, what is the range? -- Fitz10019 *Taunt is ranged. no idea about the range.--Defunc7 12:09, 19 April 2006 (PDT) *Taunt is not an attack. Neither touch attack nor ranged touch attack. Taunt is a hostile action performed on a target which takes approximately 1 round to complete and makes you flatfooted for its duration. You need to be at melee touch range when initiating the taunt and finalizing it. GhostNWN 12:16, 19 April 2006 (PDT) :*Thanks, GhostNWN, very interesting... but the article says "It is considered an attack." Perhaps a suble re-write? And the article's note says "you might be" flat-footed... Is it more accurate to say, "you will flat-footed for 1 round, and you might be attacked while flat-footed." And what does "if you're not careful mean"? The note is odd... Also, does the taunter's entire party benefit from the effect? or, is the AC penalty only a benefit to the individual who taunted? -- Fitz10019 ::*Taunt is an effect applied to the victim so the victim automatically suffers AC penalty and ASF. This means that anyone benefits from this (except the victim and his allies) GhostNWN 14:31, 19 April 2006 (PDT) ::*When Taunt is used, the PC takes a full round performing his/her taunt animation. At the end of the animation the roll for taunt success/failure is made. At the end of this animation the PC's combat queue is empty so poor timing of the action means the target of the taunt might execute an attack just as the combat queue is emptied hence leaving the PC flat-footed. Harleyquin 17:05, 19 April 2006 (PDT) :::*Not just that. While performing that whole round action you are already flatfooted. You can be flatfooted even longer if you don't reinitiate combat immediately after the taunt is all. GhostNWN 18:22, 19 April 2006 (PDT) Spell failure Is it really only Arcane spell failure? Stacks with deaf spell failure? ShaDoOoW *I haven't verified this, but since the description makes no mention of "arcane", I would assume the spell failure applies to divine casters as well. (Plus the spell failure article specifically states that spell failure from taunt affects both kinds of casters.) I don't know about stacking with other spell failures. --The Krit 01:15, 5 January 2009 (UTC) Has anyone ever verified whether the chance of spell failure persists for the duration of the effect v. just a particular spell possibly failing if cast in the same round the target is taunted? 18:46, February 6, 2011 (UTC) AC penalty type? Does anyone know offhand which AC penalty type Taunt applies? Specifically, would it apply to touch attacks or just regular attacks? 08:17, November 5, 2012 (UTC) * I vaguely recall it being described as a dodge penalty somewhere, but I do not recall how reliable that source was. --The Krit (talk) 19:21, November 19, 2012 (UTC) * Its dodge. Tested with druid in dragon shape with haste + EMA spell on him - taunt did not reduced the AC at all, unless I tested it without haste/EMA in which case the AC was reduced properly by 6points. 11:25, November 22, 2012 (UTC) * Just finished testing this with combat debugging. The penalty is always -1 to -6 Dodge or failure to cause AC penalty. It does not matter if the creature has Dodge AC or not as part of its blueprint (or bic). It's still a Dodge penalty added into the multisource AC calculation. If there is already Dodge AC in the blueprint (or bic), it modifies that number (which can end up negative if the pre-Taunt Dodge AC was less than the Taunt's effect). If more than a single enemy Taunts the same target at approximately the same moment (i.e. within the same round), no one but the taunter benefits from the successful taunt and each taunt action produces its own result. The taunting of a single target by multiple taunters was the impetus for my testing, but decided to try to confirm TK's 4-yr old "guess" at the same time. --Iconclast (talk) 01:27, March 16, 2017 (UTC) :* Let's make sure I got this right. Combat debugging shows a single "Dodge" modifier that is the sum of Taunt's penalty and Dodge AC? (Not each piece listed separately, each called "Dodge"? Hmm... mage armor might be a more convenient way to get Dodge AC than blueprint settings.) That would be fairly conclusive. --The Krit (talk) 03:11, March 18, 2017 (UTC) ::*Correct. All we need do is watch the Dodge modifier in the calculation to determine what effect the Taunt had on opposed AC beyond just the "Success" floaty. If the target has none of its own Dodge AC, the Dodge modifier in the calculation will always be (in the case of a maximum effect) ... + (-6 Dodge AC) + .... If the target had, say, 9 Dodge AC before the Taunt (then same success), it would be reported as ... + (3 Dodge AC) + ... At first, I had a notion that a creature without Dodge AC could not be penalized because no modifier of that category existed to be negated (non sequitur, I suspect, but needed to see any permutations firsthand). I could furnish a combat log if you feel a benefit, TK. Easy enough to set back up and record. --Iconclast (talk) 04:35, March 18, 2017 (UTC) ::*Just ran one additional test to see if excess Dodge AC beyond the +20 cap would be "stored" somehow against Taunt effects. I used a custom boot with 20 Dodge AC prop and had the creature cast EMA on itself. That would amount to 25 Dodge AC but the Dodge cap holds in the calculation (as anticipated) because all attacks for 5 rounds were against a Dodge modifier of 14 (20 - 6), then returning to against 20 Dodge AC when the taunt expired. That's about all the permutations I could think of. Otherwise, the mechanics seem clear to me. --Iconclast (talk) 23:33, March 18, 2017 (UTC) Taunt range revisited Can an enemy be taunted OUTSIDE melee range? (though it is not stated within the melee article, a melee range extrapolation of sorts can be approximated from the point blank shot article) In this instance, I'm interested specifically about whether the melee range penalty imposed on a range attacker can be avoided while performing a taunt action. It "appears" taunting forces the character to close within melee range but I have no way to quantify this since the target can change the range by the time a standard attack can be initiated (and thereby debunking the relevance of the observed AB at that moment in the log). TIA for any clarification. --Iconclast (talk) 06:15, April 25, 2015 (UTC) * Why are you trying to avoid the attack penalty to your opponent? --The Krit (talk) 21:55, April 25, 2015 (UTC) :* I had a few moments to test this, TK. The Taunt action does NOT automatically place the taunter within melee range of the target... at least not as far as the -4AB penalty is concerned. What this means is that a range attacker can taunt, attack without close-range penalty from the resultant distance between target AND need not invest in PBS unless they need it for other reasons. Actually, what the game considers "within PBS's melee range" is VERY close, a distance difficult to intentionally simulate for testing. So the results answer both our questions: 1) Yes, enemies can be taunted outside melee range thereby avoiding any ranged attack penalty and 2) a taunter's ranged attack DOES avoid the need to invest into the PBS feat for taunting's sake only. I still have no way of quantifying the EXACT taunt distance in feet or meters, but at least in this case, it is not needed. --Iconclast (talk) 00:07, May 6, 2015 (UTC) ::* But if the enemy is already moving to you for melee combat, it could easily be in melee distance by the time the taunt is finished. WhiZard (talk) 03:43, May 6, 2015 (UTC) :::* "If". While enemies are already tied up attacking another member (or members) of your party, you can taunt each one in succession without them necessarily closing the gap and causing the attack penalty. It requires some action on the part of the target to create that situation. The point is: the taunting action by itself does NOT force the taunter into melee range. Naturally, a custom AI may instruct foes to break off from current attacker in order to re-prioritize their position vs. a taunter. Default AI does not do this, however. --Iconclast (talk) 04:58, May 6, 2015 (UTC) ::::* If the target is already preoccupied or immobilized then you can afford to take a few steps backwards if needed. The PBS range is not nearly as significant as the AoO range. If taunting brings you into the AoO range, then the target would try to target and close in on you. If taunting can be done outside the AoO range, then the PBS range is a trivial point; after all you are looking at how to perform range attacks on a target without them getting AoOs on you or stepping into melee range. The -4 AB penalty is insignificant compared to the ability to fight without being attacked. WhiZard (talk) ::::** I am not clear on the significance of the AoO range. Taunting doesn't provoke an AoO, right? So, unless some enemy provokes an AoO from the taunter while he is taunting (thus interrupting his taunt), I am not seeing the interest in AoO range. Of course, there is the usual danger that the taunter is flat footed and may have a much lower AC while taunting, but that isn't a AoO-specific hazard. :::::: Thinking of what Iconoclast suggests, it would be an interesting tactic to have one PC in the party alternately taunt enemies and pepper them with ranged attacks while other party members melee with them. However, I kind of suspect that the difference in distance between the taunt range and the ranged-attack-penalty range is small enough that getting into and staying within that narrow band would be more trouble than it's worth. It would seem particularly difficult if the taunt target is meleeing with another toon and dancing around. :::::: Does the AI cause a taunted target to switch targets to the taunter (if he is not already the target)? That would make some sense, RP-wise, but I haven't paid close enough attention to notice if it happens. - MrZork (talk) 07:23, May 7, 2015 (UTC) ::::::* The AoO that I am referring to is triggered by running and entering a certain radius from an enemy. For this the hard-code will grant the enemy an AoO (and change targets), though a successful tumble roll can avoid this. In other words, the tactic of running up and taunting is more a discussion on the usefulness of the tumble skill, than it is about the point blank shot range for penalty. WhiZard (talk) 11:37, May 7, 2015 (UTC) :::::::* Yes. I grant the value of high Tumble is key and an intrinsically-high rating with any DEX-based range attacker (as compared to a non-DEX meleer who switches to range attack due to some circumstances like trying to pull an attacker off another party member, for instance). I've found that intentionally moving a "natural" range attacker into melee range is not that easy to do (since I had expected that the taunt action would do this automatically) and was forced to use key moves to get in that close. Many times using the mouse to position the taunter closer would move the toon around to the other side of the target (though, I seldom play with tight camera zoom so this would likely be part of the problem there). Wasn't really considering the AoOs with this test, more biased towards establishing the exact Taunt range, but they would certainly pose more of an issue than the lost AB. By this reasoning, it would appear that a DwD 5+ would be an ideal choice to pull a manuever like this off, particularly when potential SAs are to be considered. --Iconclast (talk) 20:53, May 7, 2015 (UTC) Viable Taunt Targets Is a target being taunted subject to taunt's penalties if already: 1) deafened, 2) blinded, 3) prone or 4) stunned/paralyzed? I am interested in whether the taunt action checks for any of these conditions (or any others I may have neglected to list that might prevent a reaction of any kind from the target). As usual, TIA for insight into the scope of this skill. --Iconclast (talk) 13:19, June 25, 2016 (UTC) * I feel confident in saying that one is immune to taunt if one is dead. :) I haven't tried out the ones you mention, but I don't see why 3 should make a difference. My feel is that 4 is not the sort of thing that factors into NWN's version of D&D, and I'd be slightly surprised if 1 or 2 mattered (given that you cannot taunt from stealth even when your target obviously can see you). --The Krit (talk) 03:30, July 1, 2016 (UTC) Getting the AI to use Taunt I'm looking for info on getting the AI to use Taunt in a custom script. 1. Is it possible to identify the effect on a creature? There's no function for determining if the creature has a skill effect in the Toolset. I suppose I could write a function that looks for a dodge AC penalty with no spell ID associated with it, but is there an easier way? 2. How do you get a creature to use Taunt? ActionUseSkill(SKILL_TAUNT, oTarget) doesn't seem to work, do I have to mess around with talents? I figured out how to get a creature to use Taunt. It's ActionUseSkill(SKILL_TAUNT, oTarget), but it has a really short range. Does anyone know the exact range so I can add a distance check to the conditional before the creature uses the skill? Thanks, 21:57, August 16, 2018 (UTC) Okay, I did some testing to figure out the range and discovered that the AI cannot initiate combat using Taunt. It has to do something else hostile first. I had a hostile Barbarian attacking a PC, If I ordered it to use Taunt nothing would happen, even if it was standing right next to the PC. If I told it to attack and then use Taunt it would use Taunt. It didn't actually have to attack the PC, but the attack order did have to be given before it would use the skill. I'm not sure if another hostile act would have worked; I got the script working correctly and a Barbarian doesn't really have a lot of ways to start combat. It does seem like some kind of flag or reputation adjustment (beyond normal Hostile/PC reaction) has to occur before the AI can use the skill. 01:46, August 17, 2018 (UTC)